32: Bridging Body and Mind: Chris McDonald on Integrating Yoga into Therapy

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Narrator

Hello and welcome to Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy. Stories of hope and healing through raw and heartfelt conversation, we uncover the powerful tools and strategies these individuals use to not only heal themselves, but also inspire those around them. Join us on this incredible journey as we discover the human spirit's remarkable capacity to heal, find hope in the darkest of moments, and ultimately live an elevated life.

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Cherie Lindberg

All right, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Elevated Life Academy. And I am your host, Cherie Lindberg. And we have another beautiful holistic healer here with us today. And I will let Chris introduce herself. And just the second, it's really important that if you feel these talks that we're having, you know, these are stories of hope and healing.

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Cherie Lindberg

Please share with any loved ones or anyone that you think will benefit with these conversations. Our goal here is to get this information out into the world to anyone that is interested in learning how to live an elevated life. And with that, Chris McDonald, thank you for being here. And please introduce yourself and I'd love to hear your story.

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Chris McDonald

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to be a part of this podcast. I was telling Sherri before we started how much I'm enjoying all the stories and gas and already have learned so much. I think we can all learn so much from each other and our all of our experiences. But my name's Chris McDonald. I'm a licensed therapist in North Carolina.

00;01;47;08 - 00;02;10;19

Chris McDonald

I have a private practice that is both in-person and hybrid. So I have online as well, and I've had that private practice since 2015. So it's been a while. I also have a podcast called the Holistic Counseling Podcast, which is geared towards mental health clinicians who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities, and that has been almost spent three years.

00;02;10;26 - 00;02;33;24

Chris McDonald

So it's been quite a journey for sure, and I love connecting with other therapists and helping empower therapists as well, especially to bring holistic modalities into sessions. So I'm also a yogi. I do yoga every day, I do meditation most days and teach therapists how to integrate yoga into clinical session. So I identify myself as a holistic therapist.

00;02;33;27 - 00;02;45;23

Chris McDonald

And that's not just professional. I'm a holistic person. So my whole life is I feel holistic and I own that and just really feel that to my core that I've been brought to this place.

00;02;45;26 - 00;02;55;26

Cherie Lindberg

Beautiful goal is how you were brought to this place. So yeah, carried out with mental health counseling and then something like tell us your story, how you got here.

00;02;56;02 - 00;03;14;24

Chris McDonald

Yeah, So I used to be a school counselor for 16 years, so honestly, I never thought I would be here. So it's just funny to me how how life can twist and turn and we never know we're going to end up and I'm still re-inventing myself and figuring out where I'm going. I'm making some huge changes in my business and the next year, but I'm excited.

00;03;14;25 - 00;03;41;15

Chris McDonald

Little nervous, But, you know, it is kind of figuring out what you want most of life. I feel like that's been quite a learning process for me and I've grown so much. I grew up as a very shy person, extremely, painfully shy, and I love that how I've transformed that, because I never in a million years that I would do a podcast or, you know, be able to reach so many people around the world.

00;03;41;15 - 00;04;02;19

Chris McDonald

It's just amazing to think of that transform Asian. But I wasn't always holistic as I got my counseling degree was, like I said, school counseling, which basically is just short term counseling in the school system. So we're not quote unquote supposed to do therapy. But it was there were usually we often saw kids, you know, on a regular basis.

00;04;02;26 - 00;04;21;29

Chris McDonald

But what I found is that traditional therapy that I was taught, it really was very limited in what we could do. And I feel like a lot of the kids that came to me, they wanted something more. And CBT, which is that kind of behavioral therapy that a lot of us are taught, you know, using more of our minds and changing thoughts.

00;04;21;29 - 00;04;44;29

Chris McDonald

And it's helpful. But we hit was called the CBT wall in my opinion that we can only go so far. Sounds like there's got to be more. What else can I teach? You know these these kids to help them better manage their emotions. And that brought me to Breathwork. So I started to study Breathwork on my own. This was before podcasts and I had books and learned on my own.

00;04;44;29 - 00;05;11;28

Chris McDonald

There was no YouTube at that time. Yeah, I age myself, but yeah, so I really had learned from someone else that taught Breathwork and started teach that with amazing results. So, so these kids that had anxiety were starting to be able to regulate themselves more, but these skills into place and start to start that road of healing just just from breathwork alone.

00;05;12;00 - 00;05;35;08

Chris McDonald

And if we think of Breathwork practices as the bridge between the body and the mind. So being able to cross that bridge and to settle the mind more so that maybe they can talk more about the issues that are bothering them neuro biologically as front of our brain shuts down when we're feeling disregulated. So it's hard to connect to words and verbalization and executive functioning.

00;05;35;08 - 00;05;56;22

Chris McDonald

So so using these practices like Breathwork, I was like, wow, this is I'm on to something. Yeah, yeah. Loved it so much. So then I moved on to meditation. It's been a very slow journey. This wasn't overnight for me. And, and I start, like I said, there was no podcast. There is none of these ways to learn or there was hardly any courses, really.

00;05;56;24 - 00;06;21;20

Chris McDonald

So I did a lot of self-study with that, ended up learning more from the Buddhism perspective and started to attend weekly meditation groups. The same hope and learn from them how to do it on a regular basis because it was more a Band-Aid approach for me. I would just do it when I was upset or having a hard day, but I was like, How do I shift from once in a while to a consistent practice?

00;06;21;23 - 00;06;42;21

Chris McDonald

That was the question, and that's the question. I have a lot of people that I work with. They struggle with getting these. We know these are helpful practices. We know we feel good when we do them, but how do we make that shift into doing them more consistently to get the most positive result? So I started to do daily meditation and realized the impact.

00;06;42;21 - 00;06;58;24

Chris McDonald

And it was funny because sometimes I thought, Yeah, I don't feel like doing it today, but it was almost like my body wanted to go and sit on the floor to do meditation. It's like brought me there. It's like you. It's like you change your whole neurobiology, these consistent practices.

00;06;58;27 - 00;07;07;07

Cherie Lindberg

So you, your body, once you started to do it, it sounds like it became this habit. And that was like even craved it.

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Chris McDonald

Absolutely. Yeah. And I would know. So if I didn't do that practice, I was much more reactive. I just would get more I'm more prone to anxiety and my anxiety was higher. And just to rewind for a moment, when I was in the school system as a school counselor, I did not do what what I call my morning routine, which is be able to do some yoga, meditation, maybe breathwork some of these soothing practices.

00;07;30;17 - 00;07;52;15

Chris McDonald

I would just jump sleep as late as possible, jump up with the alarm and go right. But I had so many more health issues. My migraines were out of control. I was more anxious. I had trouble relaxing, I was more disembodied. I just would be in my head too much and thinking, thinking and that I'm from New York State and I live in the South, but I'm always on the go.

00;07;52;17 - 00;08;08;23

Chris McDonald

I've learned to settle that down, to slow down more. But back then it was, Oh my gosh, so much worse. And school counselors were torn in so many directions, which almost made that worse because I felt like I always had to be moving, moving, moving. So it was very difficult and hard on my body as well.

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Cherie Lindberg

Well, what you're describing as being in sympathetic dominance at that, I guess that the meditation and the breathwork and all of that helps you regulate better. Yeah.

00;08;21;00 - 00;08;42;07

Chris McDonald

Oh, for sure. And then that brought me to yoga, so I spend breathwork meditation and then yoga. I started to experiment with yoga. I actually did a training online about how this one therapist had integrated some of that, and I was like, Wow, this sounds really cool. And started with some chair yoga and started to introduce it to clients with amazing results.

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Chris McDonald

And it was like, you can almost just see the stress melt away with clients and they're able to use these skills as well. So what I do now too is assign it as homework. So if we do a gentle movement or awareness practice, well, how about you try that each day for homework and see how that goes? So it's empowering clients to have these tools that they can use not just in session, but out of session as well.

00;09;07;05 - 00;09;21;25

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, well, and what I'm hearing you do with them is teaching them these skills for embodiment that is also helping them regulate, which is decreasing stress and decreasing anxiety.

00;09;21;28 - 00;09;32;21

Chris McDonald

Absolutely is just profound shifts in the dealing with using all these modalities. And I use all of these with clients meditation, breathwork and yoga.

00;09;32;23 - 00;09;55;10

Cherie Lindberg

I wonder if you could share more. I heard I listened for this because I've heard it from almost every healer. That is. How about the disconnect between what we learn in our education as healers and what really works in our office for people's true healing? Anything you'd like to say about that?

00;09;55;13 - 00;10;26;21

Chris McDonald

Yeah. I went to grad school a long time ago and there was nothing brought up about holistic modalities and it was just, here's the problem, here's problem solutions and here's how you do brief solutions. Because I was going to school, that was it. And I'm like, there is a gap here. There is so much missing. And once I started to become more a somatic therapist and bring the body in therapy and I saw the positive result, but it's almost like slowing down because if we're going on going, like you said, unsympathetic, we're not in tune with what's happening in our bodies.

00;10;26;23 - 00;10;50;29

Chris McDonald

And sometimes I'll I'll have clients slow down. Can you just can we just stop for a moment and just notice how does that land in your body? One is coming up right now and just kind of being a witness to what is happening in their bodies. It's almost relating differently to their bodies. Can they just be curious and observe without telling a story of what's happening?

00;10;51;02 - 00;10;59;24

Cherie Lindberg

So you did school counseling? Yeah. How did you transition to becoming the mental health counselor?

00;10;59;26 - 00;11;16;28

Chris McDonald

I got my licensure while I was in the school system and got my hours there, but then I made a plan just to get out because it's very stressful. Like I said that you're torn in so many directions. I had the worst year of my life the last year of school counseling, and I was like, That's it. I didn't think I was going to make it through the school year.

00;11;16;28 - 00;11;33;28

Chris McDonald

It was that bad. I was having like a nervous breakdown. I don't know how else to put it. It was just every day just dreading going into to work and just dragging myself through the day, going through the motions. And and I didn't have yoga then too, which I think I would have been able to handle it better now.

00;11;33;28 - 00;11;42;26

Chris McDonald

I'm much more equipped to handle, you know, things that happened in my life with with these tools. But back then it was just extremely difficult.

00;11;42;28 - 00;11;48;09

Cherie Lindberg

So did you go right from school counseling into your own private practice or you agency work?

00;11;48;12 - 00;11;53;10

Chris McDonald

I went and did agency work and then transitioned to my own practice.

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Cherie Lindberg

Yeah.

00;11;54;08 - 00;11;56;16

Chris McDonald

I wanted to get some of those experiences.

00;11;56;18 - 00;12;05;24

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, for sure. And tell us a little bit about what it was like, if you can remember what it was like to go, I'm going to I'm going to go on my own with this now.

00;12;05;26 - 00;12;27;08

Chris McDonald

Yeah, it was scary. Yeah, that's all I knew was I was just in North Carolina, your state employee. That's all I knew was being paid by the state. And this is what you do and here's your benefits. And. And nobody in my family ever had a business or, you know, I've always been the black sheep because I was the first to go to college, the first to, you know, move out of state.

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Chris McDonald

And, you know, this was huge. And and now I'm going to let that go to all the safety and security of that. But but I was so driven that I was like, you know, I'm going to make this work because I could not stay where I knew I couldn't stay where I was. It was just too difficult. And I'll never forget the day I handed in my resignation and my principles.

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Chris McDonald

Like, are you sure? I'm like, Yes, I really I'm out of doubt. No, that's for sure. So, you know, with certainty sometimes to you just nearby, my body mind, spirit was just like, it's time as time to to experience something else and do something.

00;13;04;04 - 00;13;09;07

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. You get the courage first to, like, really listen to that.

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Chris McDonald

I think just because it was such a difficult year, I knew I couldn't continue. I had to do something that just pushed me and I did want to eventually get my private practice going. So I initially had a difficult time thinking I could do it. I doubted myself. But then I talk to people and start to network and was like, Oh, so maybe this could be a possibility for me, and kept that in my back pocket because my goal was to learn what can I learn from community mental health to help me in my private practice and see how, you know, they run things.

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Chris McDonald

And then I could figure that out because I had no idea. Obviously, we're not we don't have the business courses, but I really was trying to learn all this on my own.

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Cherie Lindberg

Well, it's interesting. You're the second person I talked to recently where, you know, I work a lot with folks that are transition ing. You know, they want to go out of agency and go into their own private practices or they're in even corporate, and they want to become a life coach or a therapist or whatever. And one of the biggest things that we work on is mindset around the security, paycheck and uncertainty.

00;14;17;23 - 00;14;33;28

Cherie Lindberg

Like they're like, how do I do this? And it's like, well, you got to think different, think differently. And just like you said, you know, I was just there working for the state and you get your paycheck from the state. So how hard was that for you to get to a place of trusting that you could make this work?

00;14;33;28 - 00;14;38;27

Cherie Lindberg

And you went into that uncertainty of, hey, it's it's all about me when I bring in.

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Chris McDonald

Yes. That's I'll never forget what my accountant said when I was like, I'm going to do my own business. He's just like, Yes. And you get to make all the decisions, but then you get to make all the decisions and it's all up to you. And I was like, Oh, that's true. I don't know what that's like. But yeah, no, it's and to be honest with you, as you said, that was like, well, sometimes I still question am I can I keep this up right what I'm doing.

00;15;02;19 - 00;15;22;28

Chris McDonald

But you know, it it is changing the way you look at it and how you feel about it, because, you know, there is uncertainty both for me, the benefits and the freedom far away out anything, even as I've had some difficult financial times or lost ten clients in a month for whatever reason, various reasons. It's, you know, I'm always able to regroup.

00;15;22;28 - 00;15;45;00

Chris McDonald

And I think just remembering that coming back to my core, that, okay, let's recalculate and figure out how to adapt or how do I build on these other alternative streams of revenue, which that's something I've been working on as well, because I don't want to rely just on my private practice, which is why I offer these other things in my practice.

00;15;45;03 - 00;15;59;01

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. Talk to me about how did you you came into this practice and then you're a very shy person and then you're deciding to do a podcast. How did that.

00;15;59;04 - 00;16;26;23

Chris McDonald

Good question it? Well, initially I actually wrote a book called Self Care for the Counselor and published that in 2017. And at that time, you know, podcasts were starting to get more popular, started to listen to some. I was like, What would be the best way to reach more therapists and to talk about self care? Because what I found from my when I start was in the school system, I started to move towards more self care and be able to find these holistic strategies that work for me.

00;16;26;25 - 00;16;47;01

Chris McDonald

But the more I talked to other therapists, I realize how much they struggle. I'm an anomaly and I was able to, you know, rise up from not having a lot of self care to be able to incorporate a lot of holistic modalities and on a consistent consistency is the struggle, I think for most of us. And then not the everyday is perfect for me either.

00;16;47;01 - 00;17;14;08

Chris McDonald

But I know that, you know, with a lot of the ideas I had that that I could reach more if I did a podcast and get that out there and, and be able to connect with more clinicians. And so that was kind of how I did that. But and I don't, I don't know how I did. If I think back like who I was before, it's just such a transformation because there's been a gradual progress with me being able to speak up and even like presenting in front of people, like teaching was very difficult.

00;17;14;08 - 00;17;37;19

Chris McDonald

But I will say the school system did give me that, that I had to actually teach them things at times and develop my confidence and over time to sing, Oh, I can do this and that, that inner knowing that I can do this. And of course my spiritual practices helped because, you know, I'm very connected to divine to my spirit team, and I use them as well and trust, trust And that trust myself.

00;17;37;21 - 00;18;08;11

Cherie Lindberg

I would love to hear your thoughts on because, you know, I train all over the country and I, you know, work and teach a lot of therapists, healers, social workers, coaches. And it is one of the things that I find as well that there is that lack of practice, consistent practice in the self care. We all know we need to do it then no, logically, but we don't do it.

00;18;08;11 - 00;18;36;27

Cherie Lindberg

We keep giving energy time and healing away and don't, you know, do that for ourselves and, you know, I feel I do feel like a broken record too, when I go out and I train and I talk to everybody, it's like your clients are all going to be able to go as far as you go. So if you're very reactive, like your clients are going to struggle with reactivity like, So talk to me more about, you know, how you're helping therapists connect what.

00;18;37;00 - 00;18;57;15

Chris McDonald

Well, I had before the pandemic actually did a group for therapists that was a support group and incorporated yoga as part of that. So that was one way that I was able to help with some of that. So do we actually do these practices and learn more of these skills? And I've done a lot of workshops to on self-care for therapists and and to have that connection.

00;18;57;16 - 00;19;17;22

Chris McDonald

The last one I did was in March, and I'll never forget it was so profound as we're standing around, we did Tree pose as a group and everybody's looking around and felt that connection and so many people were just crying. They're like, I forget to take care of myself. And it was just the most it was like a counseling session.

00;19;17;27 - 00;19;39;13

Chris McDonald

I didn't mean it to be, but everybody was just like, it's like yoga can just bring so much into that, just that embodiment and just, Oh, wait, this is what I've been missing. I've been missing this connection to self and to others and as a community that we all need. And and I also have worked with some consultation with therapists as well.

00;19;39;15 - 00;19;59;29

Chris McDonald

So I have a lot of connections in the community I live into that I've been able to, you know, create a holistic community in this area of North Carolina and, and have social events and ways we can get together and connect with each other. Because what I found, I love private practice. I'm in solo practice now, but it can be isolating even if you're intentional.

00;19;59;29 - 00;20;09;25

Chris McDonald

So I think we're all craving that more of that community connectedness, even if it's just, Hey, let's go have a coffee together. You know, those small things, they make a huge difference.

00;20;09;27 - 00;20;21;23

Cherie Lindberg

Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. Is there anything else that you would like to share that maybe I haven't asked about holistic healing that you know, you'd like to share?

00;20;21;25 - 00;20;44;17

Chris McDonald

You know what I found? That my shift from traditional counseling to more holistic counseling has just been absolutely phenomenal. So being able to bring the body in session is just perfect. I almost want to tape some sessions. I'm just like, Can you give me permission? Because this is just so incredible to see these transformations and to see people.

00;20;44;18 - 00;21;16;11

Chris McDonald

And I use brain spotting as well, integrating that with yoga and breathwork. And it's it's just amazing to see. And to see people leave therapy because they are able they get they're good. I've got this I've had several recently that no longer meet the criteria for PTSD after a year and as just does my heart good And it just goes to prove, though, these are the clients that were willing to take these practices and they use it on a regular basis outside of session.

00;21;16;13 - 00;21;38;04

Chris McDonald

They've created their own yoga practices. They do self spotting, They do all these things to help themselves, and it changes your brain. They're changing their brains to move more towards that regulated state. And on the poly vagal ladder at the top of the ladder, more of that ventral vagal that safe and feeling like they can connect and be social again.

00;21;38;06 - 00;22;04;01

Cherie Lindberg

Absolutely. I love that. And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to do the podcast as well and one of the reasons why I wanted to be a trainer in brain spotting is to get this information out there because just like you said, you know, all these things yoga, breath, work, embodiment, you know, so many people out there are told, oh, if you have PTSD, you're going to have it the rest of your life.

00;22;04;03 - 00;22;06;29

Cherie Lindberg

And I want people to know that's not true. That's not.

00;22;06;29 - 00;22;07;03

Chris McDonald

True.

00;22;07;27 - 00;22;33;09

Cherie Lindberg

There's you know, I met the criteria in my twenties for PTSD, and it was through, you know, EMDR and then brain spotting, which made my soul come alive. So that is exciting. And what is even more amazing as the healer holding the space for the client to watch them fully heal and then leave and no longer need you need your services, that's wonderful as just.

00;22;33;12 - 00;22;57;00

Chris McDonald

Oh, I know what it is for sure. Yeah. And that's one thing that I'm moving towards too. I've been trained, has 60 hours training and mindful movement, which is yoga and qigong and somatic, and I'm offering a mindful movement community group coming up soon. So just to integrate that with meditation, and I'm really excited about that. So like I said, I'm trying to make some other shifts so that I can really reach more people as well.

00;22;57;03 - 00;22;59;15

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah, I practice qigong as well.

00;22;59;17 - 00;23;01;21

Chris McDonald

It's amazing. I love it so much.

00;23;01;21 - 00;23;20;06

Cherie Lindberg

It's so much for being here. Yeah. To make sure that we have your links, your socials and all of that tied to the podcast so that people can reach you, especially, you know, practitioners may be here, you're looking for some self-care and they can join your group, so we'll make sure we have the links there attached.

00;23;20;12 - 00;23;26;21

Chris McDonald

Yeah, absolutely. We have a Facebook group called the Holistic Counseling and Self-care Group, so you're welcome to come join us.

00;23;26;23 - 00;23;35;16

Cherie Lindberg

All right. Well, thank you so much, Chris, for coming and taking time out of your busy schedule to share all these beautiful skills and tools that you're sharing with the country.

00;23;35;18 - 00;23;37;04

Chris McDonald

And thank you for having me.

00;23;37;06 - 00;24;13;24

Cherie Lindberg

Yeah. You're welcome. I hope you enjoyed our podcast today where I interviewed Chris McDonald and we talked about other holistic methods that therapies than healers can bring into their practice so that there is more potential for holistic healing for your clients. We talked about Breathwork, we talked about meditation and we talked about yoga. And you will also have links to Chris's information and some of the classes that she is creating for community.

00;24;13;27 - 00;24;29;19

Cherie Lindberg

So again, if you found this very helpful, if you don't mind sharing it with somebody, that it might put a spring in their step, we'd appreciate it. We're here to help everyone learn to live an elevated life. Thank you so much.

00;24;29;21 - 00;24;48;18

Narrator

Thank you for joining us. On another uplifting journey on Cherie Lindberg's Elevated Life Academy Stories of hope and healing. If you found resonance or connection with what you've heard today, we encourage you to share this episode and consider becoming a subscriber. Please spread the word so others can live an elevated life.